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In this video, the goal is to prove that black CANNOT castle. To do this, one must show that the King or the Rook must have already moved. If you want to see more retrograde puzzles, let me know! Be sure to subscribe for more chess content!
Thank you!
Here is the PGN to reach the position in a game:
1. Nc3 Nc6 2. Na4 Ne5 3. Nb6 Nf3+ 4. gxf3 g5 5. Nxc8 g4 6. Nb6 g3 7. Bh3 Bg7 8.
Nc4 Nf6 9. Bf5 Nd5 10. Bd3 Nf6 11. Nh3 g2 12. Rf1 g1=R 13. a4 Rg3 14. hxg3 Bh6
15. b4 Be3 16. fxe3 Rg8 17. a5 Rg5 18. b5 h5 19. c3 h4 20. g4 Rh5 21. g5 Rh6 22.
g6 Rh5 23. g7 Nh7 24. g8=R+ Nf8 25. Rg2 Rh6 26. Bc2 Rh7 27. d3 Rh8
28. Ra4 Rh7 29. Ba3 Rg7 30. Bb4 Rg6 31. Bb3 Rg8 32. a6 Rg7 33. b6 Rg8 34. Na3
Rg7 35. c4 Rg8 36. c5 Rg7 37. c6 Rg8 38. Ra5 Rg7 39. Bc4 Rg8 40. Bb5 Rg7 41. Rg4
Rg8 42. Bc5 Rg7 43. Rga4 Rg8 44. Bb4 Rg7 45. Qb3 Rg8 46. Kd2 Rg7 47. Ra1 Rg8 48.
Ra2 Rg7 49. Kc2 Rg8 50. Kb2 Rg7 51. Ka1 Rg8 52. Nf4 h3 53. Nd5 h2 54. e4 h1=N
55. Ne3 Ng3 56. d4 Rg6 57. Nec2 Rg5 58. Ne3 Rc5 59. dxc5 Nf5 60. Nec4
Ne3 61. Nd2 Nd5 62. exd5 Ng6 63. d6 Nf4 64. e4 Nd5 65. exd5 Kf8 66. Ndc4 Kg7 67.
Kb2 Qh8 68. Kc2 Kf8 69. Kb1 Ke8 70. Kc2 Qe5 71. f4 Kf8 72. fxe5 Ke8 73. Kb1 Kf8
74. e6 Ke8 75. Ka1
Chess Logic Puzzle ♚ Is Castling Legal? ♚ Retrograde Puzzles
Hey Everyone! Just to be sure I am super clear, this position IS possible, but it requires the king to move in order to reach it. Here is an example PGN. If you follow the game until the end, you will how you need one more capture in order to get pawn configuration required. I hope this helps. Thanks to all who have commented; you are all awesome! :)1. Nc3 Nc6 2. Na4 Ne5 3. Nb6 Nf3+ 4. gxf3 g5 5. Nxc8 g4 6. Nb6 g3 7. Bh3 Bg7 8.
Nc4 Nf6 9. Bf5 Nd5 10. Bd3 Nf6 11. Nh3 g2 12. Rf1 g1=R 13. a4 Rg3 14. hxg3 Bh6
15. b4 Be3 16. fxe3 Rg8 17. a5 Rg5 18. b5 h5 19. c3 h4 20. g4 Rh5 21. g5 Rh6 22.
g6 Rh5 23. g7 Nh7 24. g8=R+ Nf8 25. Rg2 Rh6 26. Bc2 Rh7 27. d3 Rh8
28. Ra4 Rh7 29. Ba3 Rg7 30. Bb4 Rg6 31. Bb3 Rg8 32. a6 Rg7 33. b6 Rg8 34. Na3
Rg7 35. c4 Rg8 36. c5 Rg7 37. c6 Rg8 38. Ra5 Rg7 39. Bc4 Rg8 40. Bb5 Rg7 41. Rg4
Rg8 42. Bc5 Rg7 43. Rga4 Rg8 44. Bb4 Rg7 45. Qb3 Rg8 46. Kd2 Rg7 47. Ra1 Rg8 48.
Ra2 Rg7 49. Kc2 Rg8 50. Kb2 Rg7 51. Ka1 Rg8 52. Nf4 h3 53. Nd5 h2 54. e4 h1=N
55. Ne3 Ng3 56. d4 Rg6 57. Nec2 Rg5 58. Ne3 Rc5 59. dxc5 Nf5 60. Nec4
Ne3 61. Nd2 Nd5 62. exd5 Ng6 63. d6 Nf4 64. e4 Nd5 65. exd5 Kf8 66. Ndc4 Kg7 67.
Kb2 Qh8 68. Kc2 Kf8 69. Kb1 Ke8 70. Kc2 Qe5 71. f4 Kf8 72. fxe5 Ke8 73. Kb1 Kf8
74. e6 Ke8 75. Ka1
Just to clarify what the question is asking… is it basically asking whether or not black's king or rook have previously moved? If that is the case, I would say it's theoretically possible if black just let white's knights decimate his back rank forces without them giving check.
umm… can h pawn just promote and sacrifice itself for a capture?
Never seen this kind of problem before. Very neat!
the title should be reworded. at first i thought it meant if black should or shouldn't castle, and not whether it can/can't castle.
Dude it is all about the third rock not the captures promotion means there is a rock in the black back rank = mate
So
Definitely the king was not on the back rank when this promotion happened
Simple
Good Video! It was interesting
thanks for this, I reach this position all the time in my games and I need to know when black can castle or not
well that's not a problem castling is mate in 3 anyway
There is a mistake in this puzzle. The g pawn can't be counted as one of the 6, through the fact, that neither the f nor the g pawn can capture it while getting to the left side of the board. The same reasoning like used for the h pawn. The h pawn could capture it, but would require 1 more capture to get into that position. Concluding, that neither g or h pawn got captured by the pawns and the bishop was uncapturable for the pawns, this position is not possible to reach and the main question is irrelevant, bc even without castling u cannot get there!
And thats one of the very easy retrograde puzzles. But it is good, that you continue very slow. Cant wait to see the really difficult retro puzzles 🙂
Thr black cannot castle because the bishop is missing and no pawns in front are opened. The queen is missing and no pawn is opened in front are opened. And there is a pawn the promoted to rook. Sooo.. yah black cannot castle.
In order to promote the h pawn black's h pawn must have been captured. Also in order to become a useful capture blacks g pawn needs to be promoted. Even after that only 5 pieces are available for capture.
How did the bishop get out though?
There was a more simple solution since no black pawns moved yeah you pointed they never got out but you don't even have to think about the captures
It's actually a lot more complicated than that. The g and h pawns could be among the captured pieces, IF they promoted first. But there is no possibility for the white and black h pawns to pass by each other unless the white h pawn made an extra capture. This is what pushes the amount of needed captures over the top.
So for the black pawns to be captured my guess is the white h pawn moved up the board en passant the black g pawn and promoted to a rook and tmsince there is no white pawn on the h file black went and promoted its h pawn into something that can be captured.
Therefore the 6 pieces that were really captured were the 2 knights, a bishop, a queen, a rook, and the h pawn
Edit: I realised there is no need for en passant =_=, it can be a normal capture
I think the better question is whether or not black SHOULD castle….
3 towers is an important clue.
0:43 I think you meant "The rook and the king must not have moved"..
Pls like
The conclusion is correct but the reasoning is not complete imo:
black can promote the h and g pawn. but in order promote the h pawn the white h pawn needs to move out of the way, so an additional capture would be necessary, i.e. 7 captures in total, which is not possible with only 6 capturable pieces.
can the h pawn promote to a piece that can be captured
I guessed not legal because (or so it seems to me) proving the converse, i.e. demonstrating the legality of castling, must in general be impossible. A king or rook may or may not have been moved to and fro and one simply cannot tell.
Of course black cannot castle – he had to move the king to let the queen out. Black cannot even reach that position because it's not possible for the bishop to have legally left with no pawns moved.
great vdo but, isn't capturing the g pawn similar to capturing h pawn? like 'not possible'…? because the count doesn't match?
Couldn't the knights get the queen and the queen's bishop
Just love this channel!!❤️
Puzzle is faulty, position cannot be reached.
Idk if the king can castle, but I know that there is a mate in 2. Qh3, Kf7 and then Qh8#
I'm afraid your explanation is not full
Also tho the light bishop literally couldn’t leave that square so it had to be captured while the king wasn’t on the back file and that means it couldn’t have been captured by a pawn…
its mate in 4 btw (Qh3 exd6 Qh8+ Ke7 cxd6+ cxd6 Bxd6#)
This is an impossible position because a bishop on c8 can only get out by moving the two adjacent pawns. Since pawns don't go backwards, this position is completely impossible making the casting question irrelevant.
Easier proof: Because the black light-square bishop cannot move out (was blocked by b pawn and f pawn), the bishop must be captured to get to this position. The h pawn was promoted to a rook, check the king, let the king moved and captured the bishop. How to get to the position: was explained by that guy.
This position is impossible. How did black’s light squared bishop and queen get out if none of the necessary pawns have moved? Therefore how can you prove anything about the legality of castling
wow
Btw i think i have better option to solve it, you can not move the bishop or the quenn that means that must be capture with something and that means black must move the king
But looks like this possision was completely impossible need 6 taken but no pawn can by taken by pawn, except from h one but even there is impossible to get this possision
I mean not even black cannot castle but is completely impossible to take this possision
5:15 4 pieces actually as g pawn can't be captured in a way the get pawns there, even if king moved, queen could only come make it 5 pieces which means position is impossible
Also, the black g-pawn couldn't have been captured by a white pawn on the g-file or f-file so it's only 5 pieces that got captured. In fact, now that we look at it, this position is actually impossible to achieve as the bishop on c8 must've been captured as the 6th piece, but that is not possible.
Someone give us the moves that each player made to end up in this position lol
why is no one mentioning that a knights or rook can make a way for white pawns to capture therefore make a space for black pawn to promote?
intersection between logic and chesss sounds funny because I consider chess a logic game or strategy game while strategy is generally based on logic.
do you think there is a benefit to chess players by solving retrograde puzzles besides the fun and curiosity?
the idea is very interesting, my think is black can not castle, due to the 6 captures, it appears black had to move the king out, to move his queen out. problem is the light squared bishop? we can tell that the h pawn has not promoted, because the h pawn has captured g pawn, because the c bishop had no way of getting out, we can tell that because the pawns are there on b7 and d7. so the white g pawn promoted. g7 pawn, b8 knight, d8 queen, f8 bishop, g8 knight and h8 rook have been captured by white pawns castling for black is illegal.
This puzzle is mostly all about whether you bother to investigate. Most conceptions and beliefs are like that, really
Plot twist. Black castled kingside earlier in the game, making it impossible to castle queenside in the position.
How about the impossibility of black’s white square bishop being missing when it can’t get out from behind its own pawns? Unless one of the white knights captured it and didn’t get recaptured, OR it was captured by a rook or queen that never got recaptured, this configuration is impossible.
Afaik king can’t castle as queen and bishop can’t have gotten out and pawns haven’t moved